If you consider MC moves in a PbtA game a mechanism: in SotI, the MC has a move that says "make honour and shame real". You're supposed to make the social impact of being shamed or dishonoured really matter and have long term consequences.
It interacts with the PC moves "when your honour is in question" and "when you throw an insult" but those are not explicitly about shame, more by implication and interaction with the MC move.
Luke Wayland A game where shame is used by the rules, but I can envision many forms, like a "when you are shamed for your actions by your peers" trigger in a PbTA game, a shame-stat, a shame as damage with a counter or as a named condition... It can, of course, be linked with honor, I believe the link might be telling us something important.
Blood & Honor and it’s sequel World of Dew have a pool of honor points. You can spend them on behalf of yourself and one another to succeed, and are rewarded with them when the choices you make emphasize honor over your personal agenda or well being. When you put yourself first, you are charged honor — most especially in the case of taking a fatal wound in combat. You can survive at a huge cost of honor, as your enemy shames you by letting you live.
In Masks, two of the “damage” conditions you can take are Insecure and Hopeless, and they penalize certain moves. I would argue those statuses are closely tied to a feeling of shame. Those statuses can result from combat, arguments, and social anxiety tied to the mechanics governing how you see yourself.
Kagematsu. The Ronin player has to judge each scene as "worthy of love" or "worthy of pity". Pity, in a seduction attempt, is definitely related to shame... And the "desperation moves" are hard to use without shaming yourself (meaning, your character).
Luke Wayland not so much, because there couldn't be a dedicated mechanism. Just a general one-flavor-fits-all condition system.
Mattia Bulgarelli iirc "calling people on their shit" is an adult move. Maybe it can be used with shame undertones, but it can also be used with responsability or with making someone realize something they didn't see.
I don't know much about Kagematsu, is this an explicitly shame thematic, or is it one possible use?
MH: Yes, it's an "adult move". Yes, I agree that it can be used with the end of making people realize something... But I always felt that the mean to achieve that end is shame, as in "see what you did: are you proud? I guessed so."
Kagematsu: the first three words of the introduction of the game are "Shame. Honor. Love." So yes, it's a very conscious design call. :) The game itself is a challenge: put a female player in the most empowered position in the fictional world and the (usually male) rest as powerless women using what they have to save their life. I've actually seen (male) players reacting in FEAR of this game. The shame not to be the hero is powerful even before you start playing!
Yup. The game is meant to let us "walk a mile in the opposite gender's shoes", to (over)simplify it. I highly recommend it, it was a big source of inspiration for my game designs, too. : )
You mean a game where shame has a mechanical management in the system? Can it be something linked with honor?
RépondreSupprimerIf you consider MC moves in a PbtA game a mechanism: in SotI, the MC has a move that says "make honour and shame real". You're supposed to make the social impact of being shamed or dishonoured really matter and have long term consequences.
RépondreSupprimerIt interacts with the PC moves "when your honour is in question" and "when you throw an insult" but those are not explicitly about shame, more by implication and interaction with the MC move.
Luke Wayland A game where shame is used by the rules, but I can envision many forms, like a "when you are shamed for your actions by your peers" trigger in a PbTA game, a shame-stat, a shame as damage with a counter or as a named condition... It can, of course, be linked with honor, I believe the link might be telling us something important.
RépondreSupprimerGregor Vuga that's a good one.
RépondreSupprimerBlood & Honor and it’s sequel World of Dew have a pool of honor points. You can spend them on behalf of yourself and one another to succeed, and are rewarded with them when the choices you make emphasize honor over your personal agenda or well being. When you put yourself first, you are charged honor — most especially in the case of taking a fatal wound in combat. You can survive at a huge cost of honor, as your enemy shames you by letting you live.
RépondreSupprimerIn Masks, two of the “damage” conditions you can take are Insecure and Hopeless, and they penalize certain moves. I would argue those statuses are closely tied to a feeling of shame. Those statuses can result from combat, arguments, and social anxiety tied to the mechanics governing how you see yourself.
Any game with free form conditions?
RépondreSupprimerKagematsu.
RépondreSupprimerThe Ronin player has to judge each scene as "worthy of love" or "worthy of pity".
Pity, in a seduction attempt, is definitely related to shame... And the "desperation moves" are hard to use without shaming yourself (meaning, your character).
Monsterhearts.
RépondreSupprimerThe Move "call people on their shit" is definitely meant to shame someone on something they did.
Luke Wayland not so much, because there couldn't be a dedicated mechanism. Just a general one-flavor-fits-all condition system.
RépondreSupprimerMattia Bulgarelli iirc "calling people on their shit" is an adult move. Maybe it can be used with shame undertones, but it can also be used with responsability or with making someone realize something they didn't see.
I don't know much about Kagematsu, is this an explicitly shame thematic, or is it one possible use?
MH: Yes, it's an "adult move".
RépondreSupprimerYes, I agree that it can be used with the end of making people realize something... But I always felt that the mean to achieve that end is shame, as in "see what you did: are you proud? I guessed so."
Kagematsu: the first three words of the introduction of the game are "Shame. Honor. Love."
So yes, it's a very conscious design call. :)
The game itself is a challenge: put a female player in the most empowered position in the fictional world and the (usually male) rest as powerless women using what they have to save their life. I've actually seen (male) players reacting in FEAR of this game. The shame not to be the hero is powerful even before you start playing!
:) thank you.
RépondreSupprimerShame is such a part of our cultures.
Yup.
RépondreSupprimerThe game is meant to let us "walk a mile in the opposite gender's shoes", to (over)simplify it.
I highly recommend it, it was a big source of inspiration for my game designs, too. : )