I can't tell if it means you Tell most, then Show, then Play least... or if Playing is a form of Showing which is a form of Telling?
In RPGs, Telling is the primary method of transmitting information because it's a mostly verbal game. Showing would include maps, miniatures, illustrations and such. I guess information through Play would be stuff like rolling dice, consulting rules, applying mechanics?
So I guess it's a pyramid showing the proportion of these things done during a game session. I think the colours might be a bit off-putting, though, because the red makes it look like Telling is Bad even though it's the primary activity, and green makes it seem like Play is Best even though it's least-used (and includes stuff like rolling dice to see how much damage you did).
Ok, it is as I feared: unclear. The popular motto Show don't tell applies to non-interactive media authors (esp. writing) and means "avoid infodumps", let the reader/listener/watcher learn by experiencing the story through action, dialogues, thoughts, senses, and feelings rather than through the author's exposition, summarization, and description..
I want to say that in rpg we should use Play, don't show : let the players learn by playing, meeting challenges and fighting for stakes. Showing is better than telling, but in our media it's still not the best.
I was hoping the pyramid would haved evoked Maslow's hierarchy of needs, with the more elevated and desirable stuff at the top. Obviously didn't work.
Ironically Telling worked better than Showing in this case! ;)
I think the problem with the pyramid is that it implies there's a lot of Telling and not much Playing, where really it should be the other way around. I don't know if turning the pyramid upside-down will help or not though (keeping the colours and words where they are, but making the top wide and the bottom narrow).
Yes, it is a mistake. Maslow's hierarchy of need is a pyramid because each need manifests if the lower one is met. This isn't relevant at all here. I have to find a better way to express this graphically.
You're welcome! I was just coming back to say that about Maslow's hierarchy, and also to point out that a Food Pyramid works because it is literally showing the proportions of things.
I'd say playing is presenting choices to the players, allowing them to make significant and difficult decisions. Playing is much more interactive. Playing is the game, telling is preparation for gaming.
If showing is "action, dialogues, thoughts, senses, and feelings", doesn't that cover a lot of what I'm doing when I'm playing?
"playing is presenting choices to the players, allowing them to make significant and difficult decisions"
Are you talking about RPG players interact with each other during moment-to-moment play, about how an RPG designer interacts with the players, or something else?
In my mind : - telling is infodump "the king is a dangerous and ruthless fighter" - showing is descritpion but with low player agency "his hand flies over the crowd ; the would-be pickpocket fall to his knees, squeezing his bleeding stump but before he can even beg for mercy the king drives his blade straight in his throat" - playing is putting it in the player's hand, with agency "so dies you ally. X, the old king has locked eyes with you, obviously he understood something, Y you apparently haven't been noticed. What do you do?"
I think those different levels make sense to me (the distinctions I see in what you're talking about: "Telling" is raw information, "Showing" is conveying information via fictional details in the world but is potentially a self-contained "closed loop" of just very detail-rich description, while "Playing" is expressing fictional things in the world that can be made consequential by other people building on them). I think what's throwing me off is that some of the things you'd call playing in a game we'd also call "showing, not telling" in written fiction. In a game we have an expectation of whether or not our contributions to the fiction are relevant to what other players' are going to consider meaningful while in written fiction that's entirely under the single author's control so it's not a distinction that's usually discussed.
Show, don't tell. :D
RépondreSupprimerI can't tell if it means you Tell most, then Show, then Play least... or if Playing is a form of Showing which is a form of Telling?
RépondreSupprimerIn RPGs, Telling is the primary method of transmitting information because it's a mostly verbal game. Showing would include maps, miniatures, illustrations and such. I guess information through Play would be stuff like rolling dice, consulting rules, applying mechanics?
So I guess it's a pyramid showing the proportion of these things done during a game session. I think the colours might be a bit off-putting, though, because the red makes it look like Telling is Bad even though it's the primary activity, and green makes it seem like Play is Best even though it's least-used (and includes stuff like rolling dice to see how much damage you did).
If I'm reading it right, of course! :P
yeah I don't understand it
RépondreSupprimerOk, it is as I feared: unclear. The popular motto Show don't tell applies to non-interactive media authors (esp. writing) and means "avoid infodumps", let the reader/listener/watcher learn by experiencing the story through action, dialogues, thoughts, senses, and feelings rather than through the author's exposition, summarization, and description..
RépondreSupprimerI want to say that in rpg we should use Play, don't show : let the players learn by playing, meeting challenges and fighting for stakes. Showing is better than telling, but in our media it's still not the best.
I was hoping the pyramid would haved evoked Maslow's hierarchy of needs, with the more elevated and desirable stuff at the top. Obviously didn't work.
Better?
Ironically Telling worked better than Showing in this case! ;)
RépondreSupprimerI think the problem with the pyramid is that it implies there's a lot of Telling and not much Playing, where really it should be the other way around. I don't know if turning the pyramid upside-down will help or not though (keeping the colours and words where they are, but making the top wide and the bottom narrow).
Yes, it is a mistake. Maslow's hierarchy of need is a pyramid because each need manifests if the lower one is met. This isn't relevant at all here. I have to find a better way to express this graphically.
RépondreSupprimerMany thanks!
You're welcome! I was just coming back to say that about Maslow's hierarchy, and also to point out that a Food Pyramid works because it is literally showing the proportions of things.
RépondreSupprimerPlay > Show > Tell
RépondreSupprimerTell Show Play
RépondreSupprimerso what's the functional difference between telling and playing?
RépondreSupprimerI'd say playing is presenting choices to the players, allowing them to make significant and difficult decisions. Playing is much more interactive. Playing is the game, telling is preparation for gaming.
RépondreSupprimerIf showing is "action, dialogues, thoughts, senses, and feelings", doesn't that cover a lot of what I'm doing when I'm playing?
RépondreSupprimer"playing is presenting choices to the players, allowing them to make significant and difficult decisions"
Are you talking about RPG players interact with each other during moment-to-moment play, about how an RPG designer interacts with the players, or something else?
In my mind :
RépondreSupprimer- telling is infodump "the king is a dangerous and ruthless fighter"
- showing is descritpion but with low player agency "his hand flies over the crowd ; the would-be pickpocket fall to his knees, squeezing his bleeding stump but before he can even beg for mercy the king drives his blade straight in his throat"
- playing is putting it in the player's hand, with agency "so dies you ally. X, the old king has locked eyes with you, obviously he understood something, Y you apparently haven't been noticed. What do you do?"
I think those different levels make sense to me (the distinctions I see in what you're talking about: "Telling" is raw information, "Showing" is conveying information via fictional details in the world but is potentially a self-contained "closed loop" of just very detail-rich description, while "Playing" is expressing fictional things in the world that can be made consequential by other people building on them). I think what's throwing me off is that some of the things you'd call playing in a game we'd also call "showing, not telling" in written fiction. In a game we have an expectation of whether or not our contributions to the fiction are relevant to what other players' are going to consider meaningful while in written fiction that's entirely under the single author's control so it's not a distinction that's usually discussed.
RépondreSupprimerI hope it doesn't bother you if the only thing I can say is: yes.
RépondreSupprimer